RationalWiki talk:What is going on with the coronavirus?

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (*cough*) (hic)

Icon for WIGO: Coronavirus[edit]

Anyone want to make a good .svg for this? There are some vectors online already for ideas, but it'll be neat if someone can create one themselves. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 22:51, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

I threw something together quickly, File:Covid-19 Icon.svg, so we could make the WIGO stand out. Nothing too creative, but it communicates the point. If someone comes up with something better, by all means save over that one and replace it.--NavigatorBR(Talk) - 00:59, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Hm I thought those icons in the site were nice, though I don't want anyone dropping money for something. I'm kinda rusty on Illustrator, but I know how to use it. It's just I can't really use Inkscape, lol. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:14, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

So what do up votes and down votes mean here?[edit]

On WIGO World, you're meant to up vote something if you think it's relevant to RationalWiki's mission and down vote it if you think it isn't. But here, can we just say that you up vote good news and dwn vote bad news? Spud (talk) 15:35, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Don't think upvotes and downvotes are needed at all here. Vote where your heart guides you. Minish (talk) 17:11, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Obviously it's how viral the content is. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Clogs?[edit]

an entry was moved to clogs, despite being coronavirus related. But at the top of the page it specifically says 2lies, propaganda, mass hysteria and government incompetence." What's the boundary? Avida Dollarsher again 10:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

In my opinion, conspiracy theories fits clogs better than covid-19.Tuxer (talk) 11:40, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
i just thought this page was set up to avoid coronavirus stories cluttering up the others, in the same way as the elections one was. Avida Dollarsher again 11:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
true but that doesn't mean that all coronavirus related stories go here. We had a few editorials and opinions go to blogs and coronavirus-related economics go to world. It depends on context. Most covid-19 stories though go here as they don't fit anywhere else.Tuxer (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

"Americans" bought the masks out from under the French?[edit]

Someone posted up an article about an order of masks being overbid by we jolly overbearing Americans even as it was to be imminently delivered to aloof French persons. Just wanted some amplifying information: was this order placed by the French Government and swindled out by their Federal American counterparts, or was this an incident of lesser players to whom national origin is easily ascribed and written off? (Not that it matters a whole lot when you need a mask, just found the article vague and possibly incendiary) Artificius (talk) 13:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

It's either a shell company for the US government or a pretender to be working for the US government, at least according to the Guardian article on the same matter. Seems the issue goes beyond the French if I understand the article correctly. The Crow (talk) 17:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
it does go beyond the French. its not just America vs the rest of the world in a bid for much needed supplies, but state vs state vs their own federal government. capitalism at its best. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:35, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Charities question[edit]

At least one medical fetish company (everybody is entitled to their own peculiar tastes) has donated 'relevant stuff' to a hospital.

What have 'relevant charities' been doing to help? (ie those which concentrate on people and their pets etc) Anna Livia (talk) 17:29, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

David Icke[edit]

His presentation on YouTube since removed by 'the authorities' worth a mention? Anna Livia (talk) 17:23, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia Done. I added a link to the BBC article about this issue. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Cosmikdebris (talk) 18:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Is the 'diseases in the soil stirred up by digging deep foundations' theory someone I know posited (not necessarily CV) more plausible than '5G causes diseases'? Anna Livia (talk) 19:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
There are diseases that can live in soil -- usually bacteria, fungus, or parasite related -- of which a few can be serious if you inhale particulate or get them into your system. A common example here would be tetanus (from clostridium tetani bacteria), it is per the other Wiki distributed in soil throughout the world. So "more plausible" perhaps. From what I'm reading, viruses that can survive in soil are rare (though there are a few that can), so what was posted might still be bullshit depending on how unhinged the rant was. :) 72.184.174.199 (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The initial discussion was of the '5G transmissions and CV - implausible; "disease causers" (as a useful generic term) from deep in the soil disturbed by digging, plausible' (so a reasonable discussion) - and the same might apply to other contexts not normally accessible to humans (extreme cavers etc).
In the UK there is an awareness of 'Anthrax Island' (though not comparing like to like) which can influence discussions. Anna Livia (talk) 23:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
His spectacularly unhinged video (at least I assume it's the same one) is still on his web site. Cantabrigian (talk) 08:26, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Now Ofcom has got involved - [1] and [2] are reliable sources and [3] seems reasonable: there is plenty of other coverage. Anna Livia (talk) 19:35, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

An analysis by Bloomberg says that the 5G/Virus conspiracy theory is being boosted by a "coordinated disinformation campaign". --Cosmikdebris (talk) 20:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Would this be relevant? Anna Livia (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Comparison question[edit]

Would it be possible to have comparisons of '2019 death rates (ie approximately average rates) and 2020 rates (standard rates plus coronavirus rates) - it may help people visualise what the impact of the disease is. Anna Livia (talk) 16:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Captain Tom Moore[edit]

Could some mention be made of this gentleman - who deserves whatever medal he gets. Anna Livia (talk) 11:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia Added something. The Crow (talk) 18:16, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Some £9 million now.
Some at least will be people's 'usual Easter/Passover/other festivity etc donations, but it is rather spectacular by any account. Anna Livia (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Over £12.3 million according to his Wikipedia page.
One of the few times when 'do try this/equivalents at home and/or similar creative/constructive activities' applies. Anna Livia (talk) 10:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Could the figure be updated - as it has increased 'slightly' since my last posting. Anna Livia (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Job protests[edit]

As the US pro-job-despite-coronavirus protests were on BritNews should they be mentioned here? Anna Livia (talk) 10:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes though it fits clogs more IMO. But "pro-job" protests? More like pro- force poor people to work amidst a pandemic for my personal gain.Tuxer (talk) 12:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, the "protesters" are primarily business-owners anyways. Oxyaena Harass 15:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
That's too narrow. It's apparently a mixture of conservatives, people who got paid to show up, far right recruitment groups and a group with a connection to Betsy DeVos. Somewhat unrelated: One thing that does concern me is how some parts of the Left are trying to fold these often bigoted people into the mold of the Left without doing anything about said bigotry. I've been seeing more of an outcry at least online over that. It's not 100% related to this section though, but still worth bringing up since the protests are where they're in part being drawn from recently. The Crow (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
From what I know it's even narrower than "conservatives", it's mainly alt-right (eg Proud Boys) and uber-MAGA-tards, often funded by the usual dumb big business outlets (Koch etc.). Most Americans, *even* conservatives, support the lockdown. Most Americans will actually self-quarantine to some extent *even* if restrictions are lifted. Small wonder these days -- listening to the so called "fair and balanced" idiots downplaying the virus these days can kill you. Soundwave106 (talk) 16:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
There was a short clip.
Could there be a RW page - 'WIGO-not coronavirus? Anna Livia (talk) 18:48, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Krebs on Security did a pretty interesting analysis behind a flood of "reopen*" domains. There seems to be some major astroturfing going on. In addition to the usual suspects like Koch there seems to be opportunists like the Dorr Brothers involved. (The Dorr Brothers front a so-called 2nd Amendment advocacy group hated by many other 2nd Amendment advocacy groups, in that they seem to be in it less for rights purposes and more so they can deliberately stir up shit and try to scare Republicans, so they can profit from them.) Soundwave106 (talk) 21:52, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Donald Trump[edit]

To what extent is it safe to say that anything DT suggests as a cure should be avoided full stop/is likely to be ineffective if used in the manner suggested? Anna Livia (talk) 10:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

To the fullest extent. Spud (talk) 11:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
With the exception of when he is parroting without changing what 'the obvious experts' are saying.
Does he fall into the 'Not even wrong' or 'Wronger than wrong' category? Anna Livia (talk) 12:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Both. Spud (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Anyone else in the 'double up' category (in whatever areas)? Anna Livia (talk) 14:52, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I gotta wonder how, in a country that rabidly repeats the mantra of "Freedom of Speech", no one at his press conferences retorts his emetic nonsense with, "You're a fucking idiot!!!" In relation to his latest UV light inside the body and an injection of disinfectant, why not let Donald himself give it a try, live on tv. Come on, Donald, "What have you got to lose?" Cardinal Chang (talk) 16:08, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Trump is right, if you inject disinfectant you are unlikely to die of Covid19. Jumping of a high building has the same effect. The man is a genius.--Mercian (talk) 16:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Trump's a fucking disease. Cue, Sean Brennan singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJfp48Y4v28 Cardinal Chang (talk) 17:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Would following Prince Charles' suggestions be preferable/safer #in this particular case#?

Another question: it is said that frequent hand washing with soap 'prevents transmission' - so why not use a low flying plane dispersing 'chemtrails of choice' to ensure that all populated places get soap-bubbled so the disease disappears? Or is there an element of misdirection involved? (Ensuring hands are washed is A Good Thing generally.) Anna Livia (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

The hand washing is important because the virus can spread through our hands because if someone's hand touches mucus from an infectee the viral particle will stick to the hands. Washing with soap or sanitizer will destroy the particles. The "chemtrails" bullshits wouldn't work because 1. chemtrails don't exist and 2.if you tried that it would be needed to use a quantity of chemicals so large that it would kill millions of people.Tuxer (talk) 23:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I was using 'chemtrails' (rather than 'modified crop-sprayer') to indicate implausibility - and was suggesting soapy water (which would then encounter the fatbergs in the sewer systems with unintended consequences). The suggestion is 'impractical science/thought experiment' rather than 'bad science.' Anna Livia (talk) 11:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes, it would be impractical because it would leave people covered in chemicals while hand-washing removes the soap or detergent or whatever people favor at the end. Also, some people might have adverse reaction to certain chemicals and it would be problematic.Tuxer (talk) 15:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
And doing a wash-over of streets and other surfaces/applying a degradable detergent or equivalent thereon just before a heavy rainstorm (and preparing the treatment plants beforehand)? Or would this only be practical on the small scale? Anna Livia (talk) 16:10, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Probably on the local level and I don't think we can predict a heavy rainstorm, especially with climate change which will affect the weather on a micro-level.Tuxer (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Then one uses a 'UV from sunlight concentrator' to burn off the CV.
The end of the lockdown will probably coincide with 'an excess of weather' (whether or not this is magical thinking/one only noticing when inappropriate weather coincides with high days and holidays).
How would detergents interact with the fatbergs? Anna Livia (talk) 19:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Considering fatbergs are as hard as concrete, detergents won't do much.Tuxer (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Could 'detergents etc' slow the rate of accretion?
There is a difference between 'bad science'/'un-science' (chemtrails for the most part - aerial displays using coloured smoke and similar aside)/'dangerous science and under no circumstances try this at home' and 'extrapolating from basic and popular science and asking if the result is logical or feasible etc.' Anna Livia (talk) 12:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
No, because fatbergs are composed of non-biodegradable matter and other disposable objects such as baby wipes, toilet paper and menstrual pads that people flush down the toilet and then concentrates in the sewers and solidifies. Fatbergs became a bit of problem at the beginning of the last decade in the UK.--Tuxer (talk) 15:22, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

"healing crystals"[edit]

Andrew Cuomo and his wife suggest using 'healing crystals' to fight against corona virus. They have both tested positive. Sigh — Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:4085:8100:a1e6:b61d:e697:8301 / talk / contribs

WRONG! It's his brother Chris. Might I suggest that you are a tad tRumpist, BON? --Scream!! (talk) 16:13, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
@Scream!! If you check the history for WIGO covid, you'll see that they tried to add this bit of info and then it got removed and the page protected. It's been taken care of. The Crow (row row fight the power) 18:58, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
So I see. Thanks for t'info. Scream!! (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

David Blunkett[edit]

Should some of his comments on coronavirus and the over-70s etc be posted here?

Just because you turn 70 doesn't immediately make you 100% vulnerable (it is a combination of factors). Anna Livia (talk) 19:57, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Trumpery[edit]

Can something on DT's latest utterances as to the origins of the disease be added. Anna Livia (talk) 11:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia I guess you mean this. I've just added it. Spud (talk) 12:12, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes.
How much of the future decline of the US as a global leader will be due to some of DT's posturing and arbitrary links and dislinkings? Anna Livia (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
Who knows? It can be said that our stock has gone down in the world and that we've squandered quite a great deal of whatever international good will we'd aggregated under the more competent administrations, but America is still an 800-pound gorilla in the room. Whatever damage Trump does to our credibility or prestige, nothing short of the catastrophic dissolution of the United States will preclude its continued outsized influence on world affairs. Whether you can call that "leadership" or not depends on the the policies of whoever is running the show after the cheeto. --Artificius (talk) 14:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
That would also depend on how much power the PRC accumulates. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Ohio's covid "fraud" reporting website is no longer kicking people off unemployment due to hackers flooding it with junk data[edit]

http://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n7wwdw/ohio-has-stopped-kicking-workers-off-unemployment-after-a-hacker-targeted-its-website — Unsigned, by: 96.241.209.54 / talk / contribs

-Good praxis 65.217.55.195 (talk) 10:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

NZ Reopen Protests[edit]

Wanted to add something about the pitiful and embarrassing reopen protests in New Zealand but so far they haven't been covered by the media as far as I can see (Most likely because it was literally 6 people outside the parliament building and 20 in the city with a quarter of NZ's population. There was a self reported peak of 70 in the tiny town of Nelson but they are known for being a mix of conservative hicks and hippie dippie crystal babies). There is a hilarious twitter with the US constitution as the avatar that keeps posting Q shit and calling social distancing communism but thats about it. Is that sufficient? http://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559976624967680 http://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559450290147329 http://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559055572598784 101.98.246.227 (talk) 09:39, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Precious bodily fluids[edit]

Some comment on oestrogen as protecting somewhat against coronavirus perhaps? Anna Livia (talk) 10:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, a few are trying. At this point my "educated armchair guess" though is that this is the wrong path. As mentioned in the New York Times article, estrogen has a bit of effect on ACE2, which might explain some of the differences of the mortality rate between the sexes. My guess is there are better ways to target ACE2 then a blunt hormone.
That being said, I don't mind the "trying everything" approach as long as there is rigor in the fact-checking. A new phenomenon in this pandemic is that "preprint servers" are becoming more and more common. Preprint servers allow papers to be published rapidly, prior to the peer review and publishing process, in order to be reviewed by anyone with an interest. It's more Wiki-ish, in that anyone can put up a paper up, and anyone can perform their own informal peer review. Like Wikis, "the crowd" can be brutal at times. And bullshit conspiracy theories from questionable researchers can pop up occasionally (the rumor that COVID-19 was created in an artificial lab largely was fueled by one of these pre-print papers). But the benefit is that things move a *lot* faster. And even the peer reviewed stuff occasionally fails (the hydroxychloroquine stuff that now appears to be pretty much bullshit was started from a peer reviewed paper).
So maybe my armchair though is actually bullshit, "who knows". Pharmacology isn't my "area of expertise" so I'll let those actually trained in the field sort it out. :) Soundwave106 (talk) 04:38, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
What is the incel take on the suggestion? Anna Livia (talk) 22:07, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Hydroxichloroquine study[edit]

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19." http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext 96.241.209.54 (talk) 03:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

I have just added a layman's version with a shorter URL to the WIGO. Spud (talk) 07:59, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Guernsey and the coronavirus[edit]

A mention of the easing of the lockdown in the Duke of Normandy's Bailiwick (and there situation is easing in the territory of the Lord of Mann). Anna Livia (talk) 22:14, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia I added this interesting story about Guernsey at the start of the month. I have just added this one about the Isle of Man. You know, Anna, you can edit this WIGO yourself. You're an autoconfirmed user. All you have to do is find a recent credible news source for any story you think deserves to be added. Spud (talk) 02:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)